From: "Joanne Murray" To: Subject: Re: Dark day in America Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:52:29 -0500 Well here's how I see it (sort of - trying to work out an idea here). Liberals talk a lot about not legislating morality, but really i think everyone wants to legislate morality. In my opinion, preemptive war and torturing children/ small furry mammals/ POWs are immoral and should not be allowed. However I think one is obligated, for example, to understand and embrace gaiety as a perfectly good part of the human condition, and to see that abortion is quite often the best solution to a big problem. Other people think that preemptive war and selective torture are ok, but that abortion and gaiety are immoral and should not be allowed. It's not exactly tolerance versus intolerance, it's competing moral systems that will never be able to compromise. (Now of course, I am still quite sure that I am right and my opponents are wrong, but what I think I need to see is that I cannot make the argument that *I* am not trying to legislate morality. Of course I am.) Except, alas, that leaves me facing a political brick wall. So it begins to appear to me that the original idea of freedom of religion was a failed experiment. Those who have any rudimentary knowledge of history might want to educate me about counter-examples - I confess myself an ignoramus at the moment. A coworker suggested that Europeans were at last convinced by two world wars that getting along is the only option, he wondered what it would take to prove this to us. There are some issues that seem to allow (at least in principle) for compromise - for example, guns and the environment. When I think about all the other things that are screwed up right now, my feeling that we're not rational about guns doesn't look very important. So fine, anyone wants to collect assault rifles, go ahead, whatever. It's not a good idea, but it's a moveable line. I suppose that no one is really in favor of deliberately despoiling the environment just for the hell of it, so there's another moveable line. For the Dems it would just be a matter of convincing the heartland that no one has to give up their job for a spotted owl. It really shouldn't be all that hard. And pocketbook issues will in the end all be resolved by facing up to the math. But I really don't know how we can heal this "values" divide. Must go, hope this resonates with someone, Joanne Murray A70